Caution Buying from Forum Members

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 pm

As the title says, please learn from my mistake and exercise caution when purchasing items from a forum member. Although it may seem like a safe place full of people who share a passion and care about one another, that sentiment does not always follow to the "business" side of things when money is involved. I will post a couple sets of photos of the item I'm referring to, with its description from the person directly quoted. The photos are the exact resolution and quality as I received them. The muffler of this exhaust set is nearly flawless and I'm very happy with it, but the remainder (headers) are badly damaged all over and cannot be repaired or brought to original condition. They are not as described.

I'll then post the photos of the item as it came to me, unboxed, and not touched in any way by me other than to move around for pictures.

I'm doing this to show what can be hidden by strategic picture angle and omission of detail by a seller. I'm not going to name the forum member at this time, but suffice it to say he has refused to refund me for the obvious omission of damage to the chrome despite many attempts on my part to get a resolution. This seller insisted he be paid "friends and family" Paypal which enables him to wash his hands of the transaction.

Description:

"I am reducing some of the "F" bike parts I have as the retirement years approach Smile.

This is actually a REALLY NICE set with no dings/dents / road rash.

It's dusty (should have polished it up some before taking pictures and listing) but would make a nice "period" addition.

If you'd like some additional pix send me an email--or text and I'll be glad to help:"

I did email and ask for the pics. In that email back to me he said:
"I Found a bit of a scratch on the #2 headpipe when cleaning. Missed it initially. It's very light contact probably with a speed bump (see pix). Also typical' and shown, is some rusting where headers come together."

First pics as they came to me in email are attached. next post has pics of the condition when i unboxed them at home.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:40 pm

And as promised, pics as they arrived in my hands are attached here.

Thoughts on if I was misled in the description of these pipes?

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:53 pm

Yeah, you were taken advantage of. But, some peoples numbering of 1 to 10..(10 being the best) is really askew. There is rust on the pipe but they will say 'no rust' because it hasn't eaten through the metal.
To bad you cant give his name but if you see him selling again could you red flag us so no one else gets possibly burned? He should refund the money immediately.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:56 pm

What did you pay for it? I sold a SuperTrapp header for my Suzuki on eBay, and only got $75.00 for it. It was in worse shape than this is, however. It does look like some sort of wire wheel or DA sander was used on yours, which of course, will not buff out.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:01 pm

$360
It's does not buff out, you're very correct.
Looks a lot like a DA with 120 grit on it was used for some reason

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:15 pm

Name names, don’t tar every seller here with a broad brush. I have been on both sides of a sale and have never been treated improperly so if the seller does not want to make things right they should not have any expectation of anonymity.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:58 pm

sillygoose wrote:

Name names, don’t tar every seller here with a broad brush. I have been on both sides of a sale and have never been treated improperly so if the seller does not want to make things right they should not have any expectation of anonymity.

I’m with goose. I’m willing to give him somewhat of the benefit of the doubt having only heard one side. However, so far it sounds like they’re not being very honest and may not be a good fit for the forum.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:59 pm

sillygoose wrote:

Name names, don’t tar every seller here with a broad brush. I have been on both sides of a sale and have never been treated improperly so if the seller does not want to make things right they should not have any expectation of anonymity.

+1

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:22 am

"Really nice" isn't an accurate description of scuffed up chrome plating that's been ruined. If this person is an active forum member, then it's a real shame. I've often said that at the end of the day, all we have is our reputation. One bum deal leaves a permanent mark.

I agree that there is always two sides to every story, but the emails you shared seem too spell things out pretty well. IMO, the only way to resolve this is a full refund, including shipping both ways.

Maybe if he sees this thread he'll rethink his decision and decide to come clean before you give out his name.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:23 pm

Looks like someone tried to clean it up with steel wool or a coarse scotch brite pad. That's a $125 pipe max IMO.

Hawk Joined: Jun 05, 2017 Posts: 330 Location: New England

Having been burned by strategic photos, I understand your pain. The only defense I would give the seller is perhaps he did not realize wire wheeled chrome is effectively junk, but certainly no reason to refuse a refund. I too feel you should name the seller, especially since they refused to refund you. I've only been a member here for a short time, but enjoy this site because the members seem to police themselves well. If a seller is not up to that standard of character, then they should not get the benefit of this audience.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:20 pm

I would like to hear the other side of this story. If he/she doesn't "man up" and defends his point of view in a reasonable amount of time, say one day, then the forum members should know who that person is so that others won't purchase from that person in the future.
As Tom said, we live by our reputation.

Chico

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:35 pm

I do not wish to paint ALL sellers on here with a broad brush, saying they're all deceptive. I more so want to put a warning to all that pictures can be deceiving and be cautious. Ask lots of questions and assume nothing, even if it makes you feel like you're pressing too hard or being too picky. Better off getting the details and expectations stated and know ahead of time!

I welcome the "other side" of this to be brought to light here in the post. I have many emails I can put up from the seller that state his point of view...

I of course still feel like what was provided to me in pictures and details makes it a pretty raw deal but if the seller decides to make a case on here?

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:22 pm

personally I don't agree with using a public forum for such debate when the matter is a bum deal versus an obvious scam
I can see the use of the forum admin in such matters, as the sell was orchestrated via the forum - i.e. bring such grievance to the attention of the admin, let them - in a neutral unbiased way determine if there is a case of "lets put it old school - ungentlemanly conduct in the execution of all things Honda CB" - and if the severity warrants public attention then let that be via admin notification,

seen way to many he said she said, I think IMO is different to your think IMO forum issues loosing the plot and damaging forum relations - glad to say not a common practise here, long may it continue

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:00 pm

nlovie wrote:

personally I don't agree with using a public forum for such debate when the matter is a bum deal versus an obvious scam
I can see the use of the forum admin in such matters, as the sell was orchestrated via the forum - i.e. bring such grievance to the attention of the admin, let them - in a neutral unbiased way determine if there is a case of "lets put it old school - ungentlemanly conduct in the execution of all things Honda CB" - and if the severity warrants public attention then let that be via admin notification,

seen way to many he said she said, I think IMO is different to your think IMO forum issues loosing the plot and damaging forum relations - glad to say not a common practise here, long may it continue

As the admin, I support full transparency. If someone is raw dealing over the members let it be known, minimize the damage, self regulation will resolve the issue.

This isn't a new issue, it's been going on for 15 years. Every once in awhile a deal goes sideways. Sometimes it deliberate, sometimes it's a mistake between 2 otherwise stand up people, sometimes it's one party having unrealistic expectations.

Over the years I've received many requests to "make it right", That's not an admins job, nor should it be. I'm compelled to point out the description of this forum...

Quote:

For Sale/Wanted
Have a sport kit to sell? Looking for a backrest? Maybe in the market to buy or sell a whole bike? All deals are solely between the parties involved. This site bears no responsibility for any transaction made here. Caveat emptor, caveat venditor.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:13 pm

Very unfortunate. In my experience, RC's finishing process was never that good to begin with. Barring a refund, about the only thing to be done (short of re-chroming which is just about impossible these days) would be to go over the entire header carefully with a brass wire wheel to give it a "brushed" finish. At least it would be uniform. Good luck in finding some resolution.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:58 pm

CB1100F wrote:

sillygoose wrote:

Name names, don’t tar every seller here with a broad brush. I have been on both sides of a sale and have never been treated improperly so if the seller does not want to make things right they should not have any expectation of anonymity.

+1

++1

We should take pride in being part of a community where it is safe to do business.
It has taken me a long time and lots of money to learn the hard way. When I joined as a newbie on this site I got taken advantage of a few times. Dealing with people like Sillygoose and TomK and Petrat, among others, made me much more confident but no less careful.

I would like to know who it is and so would the next new guy that doesn’t know better. This is not a public lynching; it’s just information that others can use moving forward.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:48 pm

+1 on naming names if a resolution can not be found after a reasonable amount of time, effort and polite 'fair, firm and friendly' discourse.

However, playing the 'Devil's advocate', and as said earlier, one man's 10/10 is another's 6 or 7/10 when it comes to quality. It is entirely possible the seller truly does believe these pipes are 'mighty fine' and that he/she has done nothing wrong.

From what I can see, if those pipes were on a bike that was already somewhat, ahem, "less than pristine", then they would probably help it to look quite OK and be what I call a 'real nice "20 foot bike", meaning, to the uninitiated, the bike looks pretty tidy from 20 feet way or more. Get any closer, and the flaws start to leap out.

I think the OP is doing the right thing by attempting to be honorable and professional by not immediately naming names and going off on a rant/bitch slappin' session. Hats off to you Sir.

If I was the seller and my buyer was not at all happy with the goods as described and presented, then fair play would require me to do whatever I could to make it right.

I am pretty sure if the seller made private contact with the OP in the spirit of 'what do I need to do to make this right', including refund on return and negotiating shipping costs, then anonymity can be preserved and all remains "good in the 'hood".

Perhaps (just one more) polite, non-threatening but firm note to the seller stating in very simple terms exactly what you want to have happen in order for this to be made right for you?

Let's hope the seller swings by here soon and sorts it out with you. And IMHO, it's not as if there isn't a ready market for them if he takes them back from you.

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:15 pm

My intention here was not to paint all sellers with a broad brush saying they're all bad apples. There are two sides to every story and I'm not certain if there was deliberate mis-portrayal of the item, or if there was a mismatch in expectations and standards. I wanted to share a story and give pictures and background in one of my experiences. Since I've given this person more than adequate opportunity to make concessions or "make it right" for his dissatisfied buyer, I'll share his screen name in hopes others on here don't find themselves in the same situation as I am in.

The seller I mentioned is CBX1260CC

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:53 am

I've known Ricardo for years. I'd like to think some mutual agreement can be found.

I've know him as a good forum member.

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:13 pm

I have bought and sold multiple items from/to Ricardo from a couple different websites and from E-Bay.
I would have no qualms in dealing with him again.

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:58 pm

silversurfer1050 wrote:

I'd like to think some mutual agreement can be found.

I've know him as a good forum member.

+1. Ricardo is a standup guy.

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:29 pm

[quote="1100russ"]

silversurfer1050 wrote:

I'd like to think some mutual agreement can be found.

I've know him as a good forum member.

+2. Ricardo is a standup guy.

I'm not a party to this deal or what went on but Ricardo has helped me out with parts and that more than I can mention.
He has always been a great guy to deal with and completely honest and reliable.
Jeff.

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:56 pm

We haven't heard from Ricardo, Why?
I for one would appreciate hearing the other side of this event.

Chico

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:59 pm

Perhaps he feels things have been taken out of context already, and that it would be better to let sleeping dogs lie. Also he mentioned retirement so maybe he is on vacation.

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:32 am

n8n8n8 wrote:

Perhaps he feels things have been taken out of context already, and that it would be better to let sleeping dogs lie. Also he mentioned retirement so maybe he is on vacation.

Speculation. Rolling Eyes

Chico

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:08 am

chico wrote:

n8n8n8 wrote:

Perhaps he feels things have been taken out of context already, and that it would be better to let sleeping dogs lie. Also he mentioned retirement so maybe he is on vacation.

Speculation. Rolling Eyes

Chico

Indeed

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:06 pm

I'm very happy for the members on here who have had great experiences doing business with Ricardo. His prominent presence and longevity on the forum was the reason I decided to make a deal with him in the first place. $360 is not chump change for me, so I wanted to be sure I was buying from someone in good faith and good standing.
This post is meant to bring to light what CAN happen in a deal between two otherwise well known and well meaning individuals. Expectations and details can be unclear if the right questions are not asked and the moral of the story is: ask more questions and get more pictures. Even if it seems pushy, never assume your seller is giving a full picture of the good points or the flaws.
I made repeated attempt to come to a resolution with Ricardo but in the end he did not want to have the pipes back and did not want to give me a refund. That to me is wrong. If a customer is not satisfied with something purchased (Take a look at the photos compared to the description...) the seller should take the item back or give something back as a resolution to the dissatisfaction. Could be me just being old fashioned but that's what a stand up guy should do.

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:19 pm

This forum is the last place I'd ever expect to see a deal go south. Lots of exposure with many active members usually allows for self-regulation.

Rule of thumb here should be to provide numerous pictures from multiple angles, with flaws, dents, scratches, etc. pointed out. That allows the buyer to know exactly what he's getting and should prevent surprises after the sale. After all that, if the buyer was unhappy with the item, I'd be willing to offer a refund minus the cost of shipping. In a case where flaws were hidden an/or not highlighted, then shame on the seller and he should bear the cost of shipping along with the refund.

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:54 pm

tomk1960 wrote:

This forum is the last place I'd ever expect to see a deal go south. Lots of exposure with many active members usually allows for self-regulation.

Rule of thumb here should be to provide numerous pictures from multiple angles, with flaws, dents, scratches, etc. pointed out. That allows the buyer to know exactly what he's getting and should prevent surprises after the sale. After all that, if the buyer was unhappy with the item, I'd be willing to offer a refund minus the cost of shipping. In a case where flaws were hidden an/or not highlighted, then shame on the seller and he should bear the cost of shipping along with the refund.

Rule of thumb, it's is on the buyer, less so the seller. If I'm selling something in "excellent" condition, it's on you (well, not you specifically) to make sure we agree with what "excellent" means. Let the buyer beware. In the digital age it's not unrealistic to ask for as many pictures as it takes to make the buyer feel comfortable.

There are exceptions, NIB or NOS should be exactly that, never bolted up, perfect. But that's really about it, anything else is open to interpretation, for good or bad.

As time moves forward I would suspect the used parts grading system may have to adapt also. So long as it's not an absolute like NIB, and there is no "standard" to go by that I'm aware of. If there is a standard, please someone post it. That would go far toward level setting for both parties.

Also, and again, I have no dog in this fight, it's incumbent on the buyer to make sure they are clear on the sellers return policy(if any). I'm not a dealer in parts, but if I were, my position would, be all sales final. That way we would all be clear on what's what.

Just food for thought.