Shilling from NewEnough?

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:41 am

I also posted this over at S-T.N.

Possible shilling alert. I've bought from NewEnough, and thought they were pretty good to deal with. I was browsing their site and noticed the eBay link recently. Checked it out, thought it was pretty cool they started low and let the chips fall where they may.

Got outbid, not the first time, no big deal. Browsed some more listings to see if I should rebid or pick up the next auction and started seeing a pattern. Brand new (under 1 month), or very low feedback bidders bidding dollars or half dollars until they hit the top, then dropping out if the bidding came back up.

No, I haven't made an exhaustive search. Yes, it's possible that people followed the link from their site to eBay, set up an account just to go after that one super special pair of gloves and that explains why they bid so oddly. Or maybe my BS meter is way up because shilling turns my stomach and I've seen this pattern before.

Open an auction at an honest amount. Once you cross the threshold of decency, where do you decide to draw the line?

Anyway, a couple of links below, decide for yourself if you happen to deal with them.

http://offer.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=7980780540

http://offer.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=7981433087

http://offer.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=7981229287

http://offer.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=7980833756

Is it just me that finds shilling offensive?

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:12 am

Guder wrote:

I also posted this over at S-T.N.

No, I haven't made an exhaustive search. Yes, it's possible that people followed the link from their site to eBay, set up an account just to go after that one super special pair of gloves and that explains why they bid so oddly. Or maybe my BS meter is way up because shilling turns my stomach and I've seen this pattern before.
Is it just me that finds shilling offensive?

It is also possible that a crazed gerbil will smash through my window and do a tarantella on my head while giving off a noise like Brittany Spears gargling.

It just isn't very likely.

Leo D.

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:36 pm

NewEnoughs reputation is second to none in regular, online sales. It would seem very out of character for them to shill auctions, especially since the "shiller' won two of the four auctions listed. Not to mention that these are all low dollar auctions and to risk a sterling reputation for so little seems unlikely to me.

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:49 pm

How can you win an auction that hasn't closed??

No offense, but maybe you aren't familiar with the practice. Even if they do "win" the auction, nothing changes hands. The seller pays the small fee and relists the item.

Yes, surprising. If it was just some "Frankie's Gear Shack", I wouldn't have posted the links.

I've bought from them before, also. I'm particularly concerned because I've been recommending the company to a lot of people.

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:09 am

Guder wrote:

How can you win an auction that hasn't closed??

No offense, but maybe you aren't familiar with the practice. Even if they do "win" the auction, nothing changes hands. The seller pays the small fee and relists the item.

Yes, surprising. If it was just some "Frankie's Gear Shack", I wouldn't have posted the links.

I've bought from them before, also. I'm particularly concerned because I've been recommending the company to a lot of people.

Ok, I thought that these auctions were finished. Embarassed

Yes, the bidding is strange and all four seem to be following the same pattern. The thing I still don't get is why a company like this would do it. That doesn't make sense to me.

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:58 am

Wow, that looks pretty bad and I can't imagine that is just coincidental. I too have purchased from them on their website and they seem to be on the up and up and I was planning on doing business with them again for some gloves. This, however, may have changed my mind. It just seems underhanded and unecessary.

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:41 am

sounds and looks most dishonerable.

Maybe they're just trying to widen their customer base? They really need to just start the auction where they want it or set a reserve. shame shame shame.

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:55 am

The last auction on the list has a guy with 1 win, and that was June of 2004. Maybe he has saved up enough money to make 2 dollar bids again?. Shocked

Yea.....it does have a certain smell to it. Rolling Eyes

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:24 am

Looks fishy enough where I won't ever buy from them.

Jose

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:54 am

I too would be disappointed if this could be borne out - I've bought riding boots from them and found the service & communication excellent. You don't suppose ol' Diamondicks wife is now working for them do you?

Old habits are hard to kick.... Wink

Spook

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:41 am

From what I see, this could easily be coincidental, dumb bidding by new ebayers. I wouldn't automatically toss this in the lap of the seller.

Note the multiple, small increment bids are simply an attempt by a newbie to overtake the high-bidder's maximum price...he just keeps upping the bid in low increments trying to overtake the guy. Note the time increments on those, one right after another. Dumb, but not necessarily an indication of nefarious activity.

Ebay is a very convenient place to shop. But is also a very easy place to get fleeced.

You see really dumb stuff all the time, like two bidders competing to drive the price of a 2nd hand item close the price they would pay to walk down the street and buy it new in a shop.

I recently saw a handful of people bidding very big dollars on a high-end acoustic guitar, being offered by a 0-transactions guy using stock photos off the guitar maker's web site. Might as well forget about bidding, just mail the guy your money and be done with it.

I don't see any solid indication here that NewEnough is doing anything underhanded.

D

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:28 am

This topic concerned me enough that I emailed Paul thompson, one of the owners of NewEnough.
I have always had a lot of respect for Gruder and I wasn't trying to cause any harm, to the contrary, I thought that NewEnough should have the opportunity to defend themselves. The idea of them acting in an underhanded way was so out of character for them. Here is the email exchange.

Quote:

Hi John,

Thanks for sending the links. Its amazing to me how much havoc one guy can
create over a relatively small issue--especially with nothing other than a
suggestion of impropiety. He has bought from us before, but only for a
couple inexpensive closeout items and both purchases were with no problems.
I see he has bid on a couple of these items and lost by a buck or two. This
weekend he contacted me with his allegation and I responded to his email .
I "honestly" said I really didn't know what he was talking about and assured
him that we have neither the time or inclination to practice "shilling".
As
evidence I pointed out that the items in question were of very little value
hoping that logic would prevail and he would see that it wouldn't even be
economically feasible for a merchant to do such a thing. I'm gratified to
see that many of the readers also fail to see the logic that we'd practice
shilling with these inexpensive closeouts.

I would suggest that if he is hell-bent on proving his claim that he make
his case with eBay. I have nothing to fear in that regard.

I hesitate to post anything directly on these sites since I find it hard to
keep current on all the threads, but if you don't mind, I'd invite you to
post my response. Perhaps frame it as a "response to your concern as a
customer" kind of thing--that is, if you believe the respone Smile

Sincerely,

Paul Thompson
New Enough MC Leathers
www.newenough.com
888-530-7351

----- Original Message -----
From: "John and Pam" <jopastem1@earthlink.net>
To: <paul.t@newenough.com>
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 7:28 PM
Subject: Ebay auctions

> Hi,
> A topic has started at the two motoercycle forums that I am a member. You
> might want to respond to whats going on.
> http://www.cb1100f.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=13126
> http://www.sport-touring.net/cgi-bin/msgboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=7d3ac30ff856ec4e7cafb0c8602de28c;act=ST;f=3;t=33681
> I have been a satisfied customer and find it hard to believe that you guys
> would be foolish enough to risk your fine reputation.
> Regards, John

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:54 pm

First off, I am not "hell-bent" on anything. Well, nothing relating to this, anyway. I did not report anything to eBay, and stated I had no such intention. Also, this has turned into something much longer than intended, but so has this topic. Consider it, then, an essay in personal affrontation.

SYNOPSIS: for those without the energy or inclination or concern to read the relevant bits of the body, I will provide bullet points and a synopsis. PLEASE DO NOT SKIM FOR FRAGMENTS TO WHICH TO RESPOND OUT OF CONTEXT.

A. Pattern exists on a series of auctions last week. Benign, random, or sinister, it is absurd to deny. Gentle reader is provided list and encouraged to use this information as one sees fit.
-To exercise additional awareness in shopping
-To determine that I am a raving nut job (just a hobby, I haven

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:35 pm

Sorry for the "manifesto", as it has been aptly called. Just felt like talking, for a change.

Last word from me on the topic, unless it is a useful response.

I have sent the following email to several companies. I will be posting replies in Crossing the Double Yellow, if any should arrive. What do you think I can expect from everyone else??

(Btw, no offense meant or taken, John. I'm glad for the information, and I absolutely respect your ambition to find out for yourself)

Test Email wrote:

Greetings,

I have recently seen an individual with the email address of XXX@sbcglobal.net question the standards and service of your company on public forums.

If you will check your records you will see that I have been a satisfied customer of yours. Will you please send me the purchase history of this individual, that I may publish it to these forums in my defense of your company.

Thanking you in advance,

Matthew

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:21 pm

Gruder wrote:

Quote:

(Btw, no offense meant or taken, John. I'm glad for the information, and I absolutely respect your ambition to find out for yourself)

\
I am very happy to see that! You are always someone that I look forward to reading what you think. Posting the email exchange with Paul Thompson had no hidden agenda. I just thought I should, to get both sides here and at STN.
Best regards, John