So why did Honda use the double steel clutch plate?

Hawk Joined: Jun 05, 2017 Posts: 330 Location: New England

Curious if anyone knows the engineering reason behind the double plate. If it was just a spacing thing, seems they could have just had a thinner overall clutch pack.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:20 pm

houredout401 wrote:

Curious if anyone knows the engineering reason behind the double plate. If it was just a spacing thing, seems they could have just had a thinner overall clutch pack.

Good question and I have wondered the same thing. They used a double plate in the GL1000's too, and probably numerous other models as well.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:54 pm

To give it a more progressive feel.

Captain

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:30 pm

I thought it was meant to act as sort of a shock absorber and for anti chatter?

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:56 pm

Also to keep the rear wheel from doing a burnout

Hawk Joined: Jun 05, 2017 Posts: 330 Location: New England

I'm not smart enough to understand. I could see if the two plates moved, but the one I have just appears to be two plates riveted together with a small spacer. Maybe they flex in some way I cant see.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:51 pm

houredout401 wrote:

I'm not smart enough to understand. I could see if the two plates moved, but the one I have just appears to be two plates riveted together with a small spacer. Maybe they flex in some way I cant see.

The small spacer is a spring. That's how it moves.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:01 pm

Quote:

The small spacer is a spring. That's how it moves.

Yes, there should be a very small amount of spring tension that holds the two plates apart by a small amount. The plates can move a bit, they aren't tightly riveted together, the rivets allow a bit of separation. I don't have a real number, but it's like .002" maybe.

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:47 pm

genesound wrote:

Quote:

The small spacer is a spring. That's how it moves.

Yes, there should be a very small amount of spring tension that holds the two plates apart by a small amount. The plates can move a bit, they aren't tightly riveted together, the rivets allow a bit of separation. I don't have a real number, but it's like .002" maybe.

The part I don't understand, is why they used "brass" rivets. Dumb move imho...

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:06 am

unless there's a difference spline tooth difference
between one of the two plates, I don't see how the
rotational cushion could idea could work. possibly
its a anti heat transfer function device ?

Hawk Joined: Jun 05, 2017 Posts: 330 Location: New England

Grumpy32 wrote:

houredout401 wrote:

I'm not smart enough to understand. I could see if the two plates moved, but the one I have just appears to be two plates riveted together with a small spacer. Maybe they flex in some way I cant see.

The small spacer is a spring. That's how it moves.

I see, kind of like a secondary clutch spring, that would explain Capitains "progressive" comment.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:57 pm

Yes, that was my initial thought too. They're locked rotationally with the splines, so it only can function axially to dampen the clutch pressure spikes. Essentially it will lock up softer if the clutch is let out quickly

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:39 pm

So

as with so many things, as i get older, this one goes into the "just the way it is file". I was going to mention the " who gives a shit" file but thought it might be rude. That plate can be eliminated.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:39 pm

djf18374 wrote:

Yes, that was my initial thought too. They're locked rotationally with the splines, so it only can function axially to dampen the clutch pressure spikes. Essentially it will lock up softer if the clutch is let out quickly

I kind of thought it was the cause of the big clunk going into 1st from neutral, as it kind of causes the plates to drag when the clutch is open, and keeps everything turning until 1st gear dogs engage. So it's the clunk generator.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:31 pm

genesound wrote:

djf18374 wrote:

Yes, that was my initial thought too. They're locked rotationally with the splines, so it only can function axially to dampen the clutch pressure spikes. Essentially it will lock up softer if the clutch is let out quickly

I kind of thought it was the cause of the big clunk going into 1st from neutral, as it kind of causes the plates to drag when the clutch is open, and keeps everything turning until 1st gear dogs engage. So it's the clunk generator.

I like that! "the clunk generator" Smile

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:44 pm

djf18374 wrote:

genesound wrote:

djf18374 wrote:

Yes, that was my initial thought too. They're locked rotationally with the splines, so it only can function axially to dampen the clutch pressure spikes. Essentially it will lock up softer if the clutch is let out quickly

I kind of thought it was the cause of the big clunk going into 1st from neutral, as it kind of causes the plates to drag when the clutch is open, and keeps everything turning until 1st gear dogs engage. So it's the clunk generator.

I like that! "the clunk generator" Smile

Kind of a signature Honda noise. Like clutch basket rattle. Laughing

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:10 pm

grump wrote:

So

" who gives a shit" file but thought it might be rude. Laughing

That plate can be eliminated.

Absolutely it can with two reg steels. I still don't understand why they used soft brass rivets. stupid idea Evil or Very Mad

Hawk Joined: Jun 05, 2017 Posts: 330 Location: New England

grump wrote:

So

as with so many things, as i get older, this one goes into the "just the way it is file". I was going to mention the " who gives a shit" file but thought it might be rude. That plate can be eliminated.

The purpose of the post was just intellectual curiosity, but if I have to explain that, then this thread is not really for you. If I don't care about a topic, I don't waste my time or karma peeing on others, but if it works for you, go for it.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:25 pm

welll I guess i been put in my place by miss manner alright.

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:18 am

I have a GL1000 as well and am going to replace the clutch soon. I'm also converting to a 1894 GL1200 hydraulic clutch cover. (Only 1 year for a cover that will fit the GL1000).

The double plate is for damping and a more subtle engagement. I'm removing this from my GL and replacing with a solid plate, then using an extra plate at the end of the stack up. Documented here: http://www.wingovations.com/clutch-plate-b-problems/4579471089

Not sure if this will work on the CB's as well.

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:39 am

G'day fellas.
So would this plate cause a violent shudder when launching off the traffic lights against an R1?
The CLUNK going into 1st can be embarrassing. Tin toppers can hear it over their boom box! LOL
Cheers