Cost for a do it your self rebuild

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:46 pm

I am wanting to rebuild my 1100 motor in the months ahead. I have never totally rebuilt an engine, so pardon my stupid questions that will follow in the weeks ahead. Firstly, budget. I will want to use Captain's tensioners, new chains, primary damper and tensioner. I need recommendations for gaskets, pistons, bearings, etc. What is the expected cost for all this? I will not be thrashing the bike, I plan on retaining the stock displacement and configuration so I don't think I will be using a 900 crank.

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:31 pm

Lots of unknowns based on your description (condition of bearings, do you plan to do anything with the head, wiseco vs crusin image pistons, etc), but you'll spend between 2500 and 3K.

Rick

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:14 pm

Ouch. The bike has 65k miles and I will need to at least change the mains. Not sure about the pistons and rings, but why not. Valves seem ok but I have new seals.

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:07 pm

Why are you thinking about a rebuild? Is it making noises that suggest it's going to fail?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:22 pm

The short cam chain tensioner is beyond the limit. It uses oil and smokes a bit, which is probably the valve seals. I know nothing of it's history, and it makes some mechanical noise that gets louder if I run 10-40 oil vs 20-50. It also seems to run hot, but has stock jetting and exhaust. I guess I could do a leak down test and an oil pressure test first.

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:05 pm

It takes pretty much exactly what Rick said in parts and bore job if you do the labor. That is if you buy the parts you stated, all new bearings, valves, guides, chains, gaskets, seal kit, valve guide seals, clutch rubbers, clutch plates, and primary rubbers.
Now if your head need's guides it's more and if the seats are pitted or out of spec? then that's more.

That's all I know. Have fun with the engine, Jim

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:41 pm

These bikes always did run hot, probably due in large part to the poor head design (GS 1100 never ran as hot as these). So the heat cooks all the rubber parts and basically turns it to petrified rock. That's why the primary cushions, clutch cushions, and carb insulators go.

You haven't even gotten to the starter clutch, oil pump, any tranny bearing that are rough, and then there are other mods, like shifter star and such. There's a lot of stuff once you're "all in".

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:07 pm

I am hoping that the valves are in spec and only need seals. I have adjusted them only once, and the interval hasn't come up again. The clutch is good, repaired the rattle. I will need bearings, chains, and all plastic/rubber parts and gaskets along with a piston set and rebore. My biggest concern is supporting the motor and removing it. I am really glad there is such knowledge in this forum.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:39 am

Odds are with over 60K miles, valves may need some work.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:50 pm

I am thinking you are right. I am going to need to put a list together. Disassembly first. All the parts I may need are still available, I suppose? I am definitely gonna use Captain's tensioners, but will need a heads up on what may be hard to get.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:45 pm

You can get a better idea by doing compression and leak down tests before you get into it.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:35 pm

"My biggest concern is supporting the motor and removing it."

Easy one man job if you have not welded in the drop out tube?

remove the oil pan, remove the oil path body and oil pick up screen then remove the primary chain hydraulic lifter banjo bolt that sticks down. It takes a 14mm wrench to remove it.

Now you have a flat spot on the bottom of the engine. Get a floor jack with a decent size pedestal and put a piece of 2x6 board on it about 12" long. Or one of those nice motorcycle floor jacks and put some plywood on it. The wood will not scratch the bottom of the cases.
Now remove all the motor mount bolts and everything else attached to the engine. Then remove the drop out tube. Now use one hand to steady the engine (if using a standard floor jack) and start pulling the engine out. It will need to go up about 3" and then tip slightly forward. It will come out.

Just remember the more items you get out of the way (coil wires, wire harness etc.) the easier it will come out.

Hope that helps.

Peace, Jim

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:42 pm

When you get it apart look the crankshaft over good around the center and make sure there aren't any blueish yellow heat marks. Those things like to snap in half and thats why people switch to the 900 crank.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:45 pm

All three tips are excellent. I plan on doing the tests. The frame tube is not welded in, so I will follow your suggestions on that. Thanks, guys.

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:01 am

Hondo57 wrote:

When you get it apart look the crankshaft over good around the center and make sure there aren't any blueish yellow heat marks. Those things like to snap in half and thats why people switch to the 900 crank.

Greg, they all have the blue heat treat color. 750/900/1100 all have been heat treated. It's that the 1100 gear is 3mm wider so the heat treat went 3mm further into the crank web.

No worries, just getting the story straight.

Peace, Jim

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:09 am

One thing this forum is good for is learning!! Thanks Jim!!!

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:20 am

It's not unheard of to find a complete motor for sale here,,,

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:34 am

Jim

Thanks for outlining the steps to make the engine removal easier. I never thought to remove the oil pan...

Do you put the motor back in without oil pan as well?

Thanks
Vince

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:42 pm

vince83 wrote:

Jim

Thanks for outlining the steps to make the engine removal easier. I never thought to remove the oil pan...

Do you put the motor back in without oil pan as well?

Thanks
Vince

Yes I put them back in that way as well. I have a decent sized floor jack with a 5" pedestal and it works decent with a 2x8 but I recently was at a customers house and he had one of those hydraulic bike lifts like they sell at HF. It has a much more solid lift area and makes the job so much easier. I do this by myself.

FWI, a CB1100R has no drop out tube and you have to take the oil pan and oil path body off to get the engine out.

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:10 pm

What I use (thank you JR/Ken). Supports are threaded so you can raise the front or back or tilt to the right or left side. makes an easy one man job taking out or putting in an engine.

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:45 am

my prefered method is to remove / fit frame to engine and as well as removing the sump inc bits as per Jim - I also remove cams
remove body work and battery - undo the engine bolt nuts (leave x 2 bolts in place )- place the bike on its side and with an engine hoist / block n tackle or the aid of a friend / neighbour / wife - float the frame so you can pull out the last 2 mount bolts then left frame off engine

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:17 pm

I have the same support plate that Sillygoose has - he was nice enough to lend me his to make a copy. It works very well with a jack like the one he has. It's an easier job with two people if you're putting a freshly restored motor into a powder coated frame and don't want to scratch anything. One person does the jacking and pushing and the other helps align the motor mount holes prior to sliding the bolts into place. It's not a bad job at all.

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:57 pm

This thread is worthy of a pin IMHO

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:43 pm

Rick or Tom,

I was planning on copying your engine lifting jig as it looks like the way to go. I had two questions for you.

1. Do either of you have a close up picture of how you are supporting the area near the oil filter? I can never see this in any of the pictures.

2. Are the rear supports just encapsulated by the threaded holes in the oil pan and allowed to float for level adjustment via the stud threaded into the standoffs on the jig, or is it vice versa? I assume it's just sitting on dowels encapsulated by the threaded hole in the block.

this looks like a great way to go. I'm in the process of making a bunch of tools/jigs in prep of tearing down some engines, and as usual, it's all on this website if you look for it.

Thanks,
Brett

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:02 pm

brett_s wrote:

Rick or Tom,

I was planning on copying your engine lifting jig as it looks like the way to go. I had two questions for you.

1. Do either of you have a close up picture of how you are supporting the area near the oil filter? I can never see this in any of the pictures.

2. Are the rear supports just encapsulated by the threaded holes in the oil pan and allowed to float for level adjustment via the stud threaded into the standoffs on the jig, or is it vice versa? I assume it's just sitting on dowels encapsulated by the threaded hole in the block.

this looks like a great way to go. I'm in the process of making a bunch of tools/jigs in prep of tearing down some engines, and as usual, it's all on this website if you look for it.

Thanks,
Brett

Brett, what they made is really cool but truly not needed.
Remove the oil pan, oil path body and the part that sticks down that is for the hydraulic primary chain tensioner.
Now you have a flat place on the bottom of the engine. Put a piece of plywood on top of your floor jack and jack it up to lift the engine. I have done it this way for a few years now and it is a one man job and no jig to make.
Just my two cents. Ask Matt Zwicker how it works.

Either way you do it? Have fun.
Peace, Jim

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:26 pm

I don't know if you've read any of the threads re: 1100 crank vs. 900 crank, I strongly suggest you do. The 900 is stronger at the #3 cyl (above the primary drive chain). To accommodate the wider primary drive chain in the 1100, some additional metal was removed from the 1100 crank below the #3 cylinder. This can allow the 1100 crank to flex slightly, sometimes resulting in a seized piston and snapped #3 rod. Since you are planning to spend a fair amount of $ to do the rebuild, I suggest you spend a small amount more and buy a 900 crank for your rebuild. It's a small investment for greater longevity, rather than rolling the dice on the 1100 crankshaft, IMO.

Good Luck, Ed

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:20 pm

JJam wrote:

brett_s wrote:

Rick or Tom,

I was planning on copying your engine lifting jig as it looks like the way to go. I had two questions for you.

1. Do either of you have a close up picture of how you are supporting the area near the oil filter? I can never see this in any of the pictures.

2. Are the rear supports just encapsulated by the threaded holes in the oil pan and allowed to float for level adjustment via the stud threaded into the standoffs on the jig, or is it vice versa? I assume it's just sitting on dowels encapsulated by the threaded hole in the block.

this looks like a great way to go. I'm in the process of making a bunch of tools/jigs in prep of tearing down some engines, and as usual, it's all on this website if you look for it.

Thanks,
Brett

Brett, what they made is really cool but truly not needed.
Remove the oil pan, oil path body and the part that sticks down that is for the hydraulic primary chain tensioner.
Now you have a flat place on the bottom of the engine. Put a piece of plywood on top of your floor jack and jack it up to lift the engine. I have done it this way for a few years now and it is a one man job and no jig to make.
Just my two cents. Ask Matt Zwicker how it works.

Either way you do it? Have fun.
Peace, Jim

Jim is right, it is very easy the way that he described. I have done it by myself a couple of times with no issues.

Matt