My 985 Build Begins! (several updates with pics)

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:09 pm

Carry on the way you are, as for my curved guide all you need to do
is machine a flat on the top of the pin so that it fits snugly.
The overall lenght of the guide is fine and the "foot" can accommodate
what you are doing.

From sunny Fiji
Captain

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:03 am

You can always give the cases a nice hair cut to pick up your .040" too. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea anyway since you cant align hone the mains square with the deck. May as well square the deck to the mains. That then leads to the assumption the mains are split dead cent on the cases. The proverbial "dog with a bone" Laughing

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:27 am

So Alan (cb1187) gave me a good suggestion to getting the deck height a bit closer. Just don't run a base gasket! I can just use hondabond instead of the base gasket I have. I know this can be done with out issue but is there any ill effect if I'm just running it on the street? I would think not but I gotta ask ya know?

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:58 am

Mine has been running without a base gasket since 2005! I didn't even machine the mating surfaces flat like on yours. Left mine out for the same reason as you.

Nich

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:29 am

Then that is what I'll do!

Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:50 am

Just re-read both of your threads Nathan. Good stuff.

NOW where are you with this? Back to The little pig stories? LOL

I'm getting close to starting on my motor and this thread helps me. Please update.

JJAM

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:48 am

So I'm still plugging along, getting little things done here and there.

I did finish the windows in my cases this week, so below are a few pictures of that process. First I drilled a hole through the case above the main between cylinders 1 and 2 and between 3 and 4. Then i went in with a couple different shaped carbide burrs and roughed out the shape. I then used a stone to smooth out the edges a bit. I used a stone since it is not quite as rough as a burr and a sanding roll would serve the same purpose but maybe take just a bit longer.
Then I sanded the rest by had, first with a pretty coarse paper (80 I think) then finally with a smoother paper (320). As always, it probably could have gone further but I'm staying a little conservative on some of these mods since I have not done them before. Also, as Captain has said in other threads, be aware of your stud holes and the directions they run so you don't run into trouble.

Looking down the cylinder

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:36 pm

Ok, I'm going to do it again Laughing

Steel ball burnishing after the machine work

If all the bearing saddles are protected, the cases will look like new NOS parts, inside and out. Hell, do the cylinder and the head too, it'll look like something straight out of the RSC labs, or Factory works stuff.

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:44 pm

Very nice job Nathan, very nice. I understand your reluctance to go further if you haven't done this before, but you can go bigger without any detrimental effects. Almost all the crankshaft load is downward and its the lower half that takes 90% of what is going on in the area. You are safe to go big above it and cut an even bigger hole but as I said and I know you understand just stay clear of the cylinder studs and main bolts at least 12mm. I do like your efforts to radius everything and there is absolutely no down side to that but you don't need to be that comprehensive or go to that extreme. Mine are relatively flat and I only radius the edges and have never had any problems what-so-ever. So keep going with your project, you are doing a great job.

Shawn, I "Vapor" blast my cases instead of steel ball burnishing as it gives the same results and is easier to do. Using "Vapor" you do not need to mask anything at all (even the bearing saddles) and the finish is restored to as new condition without any removal of the original material. A thorough wash afterwards is all that is necessary and that's the same for any method for that matter.

Captain

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:35 pm

Shawn_Mc wrote:

Ok, I'm going to do it again Laughing

Steel ball burnishing after the machine work

If all the bearing saddles are protected, the cases will look like new NOS parts, inside and out. Hell, do the cylinder and the head too, it'll look like something straight out of the RSC labs, or Factory works stuff.

If I knew someone close by that would do it for cheap or free I would definitely have it burnished or vapor blasted. At this point as much as I like working on this engine I have to restrain myself and just try to get built what is in my head right now. It's taken me way longer than I planned on (pretty normal).
Captain, some of the sanding I did was to smooth out what I had removed with the burr. It looked ok but not real good. I would still like to smooth out the little bumps more but at some point I have to stop and call it good. I thought about going higher with the windows in the liners as well as in the case but I just brought the liners up to the bottom of the piston skirt at BTC. If I removed more the air would escape the cylinder sooner which would be beneficial but I'm happy with where it is and I'm sure it will be better than stock. Besides, if I ever build another one I'll really do it right!

Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 2:16 am

I managed to get in the shop for a bit today to work on some of my stuff. I pretty happy with the few things I got done. I've had about 5 smaller projects within the larger engine project going on at once so it's nice to see a couple of them pretty much wrapped up.
A while ago I got the low down from Carry on the clutch ring so I bought the clutch and cut the ring off, measured and turned a receiving groove on the OD of the clutch basket for the ring. I'm going to be installing new rubbers from Wout so the basket came all the way down. I also decided to have the basket Hard Anodized. I bought a basket that was in better shape than the one that came out of my engine with no wear on the fingers from the plates so it was a great donor. I sent the basket to my friend where I used to work in NC and they sent it out with some of their stuff and I got it in the mail this past Saturday. Didn't even have to pay for it, just shipping!
The one thing that I didn't do before anodizing was put a really nice lead in edge on the basket (dummy) so I had to do that, which doesn't make any difference that I had to do it after it just kinda pissed me off that I didn't think about it then had to spend the time and it doesn't look as good now....

The reason the coloring looks funny on the basket is this, being diecast aluminium it just looks different than a billet material. Also, the discoloring is press lube to help the ring slide on.

SECOND LITTLE PROJECT:

Some time ago I started to machine a magnet holder that would go under the oil pickup, be large enough to inspect and clean the screen, be fairly low profile and require as little welding as possible.
So what I came up with was to machine a 2" hole in the pan with a step and then make a piece that would hold the magnet (2"x .125" 19lbs of pull) and also keep the "floor of the pan the same height as to not mess up the distance to the screen. Then I put 7 3mm stainless socket head cap screws to hold the cap on and a .070" Viton Fluoroelastomer o-ring to seal it all up. the piece that hold the magnet will be welding from inside the pan, you can see the groove around the OD of it for welding purposes. If I was going to do it again I think I would make the whole thing have an OD of 2.125" or 2.250". 2 inch just proved to be pretty small especially when you have to start putting o-rings and bolts so close together...

Magnet holds the screen in place even when upside down.

Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 5:20 am

Look's nice Nathen. I really like the oil pan.

Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 10:05 pm

Looks r-e-a-l-l-y nice Nathan ! Like most of the things you do.

Ivan

Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 10:43 pm

Very slick............... And way better than mine.

Captain

Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 12:03 am

DAYUM that is sweet Wow

so, when can I send you my oil pan?

Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 9:00 pm

Thanks guys for the kind words! In constantly annoyed at how long it is taking me to get it done but m my how is that when I am finished with or there won't be anything that I could say "man o wish I would have done this or that while I was in there!"
Still working on the head and making slow but steady progress with it. Hopefully I'll have more to post soon...

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 4:38 am

nathanhouse wrote:

Thanks guys for the kind words! In constantly annoyed at how long it is taking me to get it done but m my how is that when I am finished with or there won't be anything that I could say "man o wish I would have done this or that while I was in there!"
Still working on the head and making slow but steady progress with it. Hopefully I'll have more to post soon...

Is that some kind of challenge? Laughing

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 3:26 pm

Just starting my build. This will be one i continuely read.

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:35 am

Well, Nathan..its been a solid 6 months...You going to ride that thing this summer, or machine on it some more?

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:47 pm

I'm slowly doing things here and there. Right now I'm working on the new spark plug location and size. Also, I'm having a friend of mine help me with putting my intake program into a STL file so I can have another friend 3d print one for me. This way of I want someone to make one for me I'll have a usable file format. But, I may see about using the printed one. I think it might work!

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:15 am

Lots going on in my life right now but I won't go into all that. I've been working steadily on this project albeit extremely slow. I picked up a cool little tool a while back to help out with the spark plug relocation that drills and reams are in one shot. It worked perfect! I'm planing on moving the plug toward the exhaust valves and down into the chamber a bit. I've removed the threads on my practice head and I'm going to press in an aluminum plug that I'll turn. Then I can put a small tack weld on top just as insurance, I'm actually pretty confident it wouldn't work out even if I don't weld it but I really don't want to find out the hard way on that one. I'm planning on running an 8mm plug. Hopefully I'll get this little project sorted fairly quick in the practice head so I can soon start the head I'm going to use!

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:38 am

Cool stuff Nathan!

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:11 am

I just re read your entire build. A very well thought out and patient process.

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:39 am

Hondo57 wrote:

I just re read your entire build. A very well thought out and patient process.

Yeah...patient not by design! Very Happy

Thanks for the kind words.

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:54 am

great stuff - loads of inspiration Cool

can you expand on the reasoning behind the plug re location - i've previously picked up the point about sinking the plug deeper but not as yet seen this relocation - thanks

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:06 am

nlovie wrote:

great stuff - loads of inspiration Cool

can you expand on the reasoning behind the plug re location - i've previously picked up the point about sinking the plug deeper but not as yet seen this relocation - thanks

I'm on my phone so this response probably won't go into as great as detail that deserves.
A few of my resons for moving the spark plug:
Moving the spark plug closer to the exhaust valves will help with burn propagation due to the heat the valves heating up the fuel charge that is on that side of the chamber. Cold air is is good bc it's more dense but hot fuel is great for better atomization which leads to more compleat and faster burn rate. I am also "lowering" the plug into the chamber to help unshroud the spark kernel and gives the burn path a more "straight line view" of more of these chamber.
On that point I'm also hoping to modify my Wiseco pistons a bit to also help with burn propagation. I'm not sure if I can do much because the dome thickness is fairly thin. I would like to bias the dome toward the intake, remove material on the exhaust side. As the piston comes up is creating higher pressure on the intake side which causes the charge towers the hot exhaust values and the moved plug. This will also benefit on the exhaust stroke by "pushing" the exhaust toward the opening exhaust valves.
So that's done of it...

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:48 pm

I assume you're going to angle the plug too? I mean, if youre going to go to the trouble of moving it to expose the kernel, You may as well lay it over too.

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:48 pm

I have found the opposite and moving the crown "towards" the exhaust gave better results overall.
There are two different functions of the piston crown / combustion chamber, 1st is the overlap function at TDC and I described this in an earlier thread so won't repeat it here but carrying this forward, the 2nd is the one under discussion and is the burn cycle where everything is about turbulence and burn. As this event has no valve movement to consider then the resulting chamber shape is now a compromise as to the valve pockets and associated shapes. In this event (combustion) the proximity of the piston dam between the valves and the crown being "towards" the exhaust side help push the unburnt mix towards the flame front more effectively than when the crown is central. That's what I have in found works in practice with this particular version of pentroof design.

Captain

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:06 am

many thanks Cool

, two new area's for study

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:20 am

Worked on the pistons a bit this weekend. Cut the practice piston up to get some accurate measurements of the valve pockets and the dome thickness. I was planning on biasing the dome to one side but the valve pockets are pretty thin, .040" so I left the dome in the center and cut down the the dome by .050" and I cut the valve notches out on both the intake and exhaust and put a little larger radius. I probably could have left the material between the intake valves like Captain mentioned above but I decided to cut those down as well.
The dome is now about .275 thick on top. the sides of the dome I only took a cleanup cut on so they didn't change more than .002"
If I was certain about just how thin I could safely go on the crown thickness I would have cut more but I don't want to find out I took off too much the hard way.
I'm going to go back and role the edges on the dome and reliefs by hand next.